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Scott Morrison has stressed to the royal commission that income averaging, which was deemed illegal in the robo-debt context, wasn’t a new phenomenon when the scheme was being devised.
He said the use of “computation” to calculate debts in this way had been in use since 1989 and had been done over many governments.
Former prime minister Scott Morrison giving evidence during today’s hearing.
Asked whether he was concerned about the need for legislation regarding averaging, Morrison replied: “No one was suggesting that.”
He said he’d spoken with stakeholders, including community services providers, and said no stakeholder raised any concern about income averaging.
My point was that no one, no stakeholder, was raising any concern about income averaging being used by the department, including in this method, and that was borne out when the measure was announced in the budget … and, indeed, the Labor opposition at the time made no mention of it being in any way extraordinary or improper.
Commissioner Catherine Holmes then asked Morrison how he knew the use of income averaging wasn’t new.
Morrison replied: “I’d be very happy to answer that.”
He referred to a cabinet decision in 1989 that approved the use of data matching to ensure the proper issuing and receipt of welfare payments.
The commissioner said data matching was not income averaging. However, Morrison disagreed.
It is the use of ATO data to match against the Department of Social Services data, and the only data that ATO has on the income is [annual].
The commissioner is becoming very short with Morrison over the nature and length of his answers.
She has interrupted him several times, and chided him over veering into what Commonwealth lawyers are arguing are matters of parliamentary privilege, which cannot be aired as evidence during the hearing.
“One might have thought that as a parliamentarian, you’d appreciate the significance of parliamentary privilege,” Campbell said.
Scott Morrison has just told the royal commission multiple times that the “clear” advice from top officials within the Department of Human Services was that no legislative change was required to implement the robo-debt scheme.
Morrison said the evidence of bureaucrats indicated there was a high-level discussion that took place about the issues that needed to be resolved, which ultimately made their way into the cabinet submission.
That indicates that they did discuss it, they did work it through, and they did come to a view in their formal advice that legislation was not required. And that is what was contained in the cabinet submission that was drafted by the department.
There was no information, and had there been such information, I would have expected that to be brought to my attention, which it certainly was not.
The former prime minister said departmental officials had “multiple opportunities over multiple budgets submissions over multiple years” to raise legal issues.
He added that the policy proposal prepared by the department “subsequently appeared to form the view that no legislative change was required, and that the program was operating in line with legislative arrangements”.
Now, that was the view of my department, and that was a view that I had no reason to question.
Pharmaceutical company Novavax is beginning a trial of a combined COVID-19 and flu vaccine that would enable people to get one shot every year to protect them from both viruses.
About 1500 participants will be recruited for the trial from 25 Australian and nine New Zealand clinical trial sites by the end of the year, the company’s executive vice president John Trizzino has announced.
Confident of results: John Trizzino from Novavax.Credit:Peter Rae
“We’re transitioning out of the pandemic phase and heading into what I and most of the opinion leaders around the world view as annual vaccinations,” Trizzino said.
“Simply being protected with one visit to the pharmacist or healthcare provider creates a lot of convenience for folks as opposed to having to go back for two [shots].”
If this phase 2 trial of COVID Influenza Combination (CIC) is a success, a phase 3 trial will be needed before Novavax can seek approval to get the combined vaccine on the national immunisation program, which would make it free for all eligible Australians.
Read the full story here.
The sails of the Sydney Opera House will be lit up in blue tonight in memory of the Queensland police officers killed in the line of duty this week.
NSW Premier Dominic Perrottet said his state would stand alongside the people of Queensland as they mourn the deaths of the officers during a violent shoot-out at Wieambilla in the Western Downs on Monday.
NSW Premier Dominic Perrottet speaking to the media earlier today. Credit:Rhett Wyman
“Our hearts go out to the families of those police officers who lost their lives. It is an unbearable tragedy to lose a family member and for two young lives to be cut short so suddenly,” Perrottet said.
“By lighting the sails blue tonight, we show that we are standing alongside the people of Queensland and giving an opportunity for people across our state and the country to recognise the risks our policemen and women take every day to keep our community safe.”
NSW Police Commissioner Karen Webb also offered her sympathies to the families of the officers who were “ambushed and executed”.
“When an incident like this happens in any state, in Australia or around the world, we all feel it,” she said.
“The investigation around the circumstances of [Monday’s] horrible incident will be investigated and is being led by Queensland Police. So it would be inappropriate for me to comment about any avenues of inquiry.”
The royal commission hearing has now resumed following a short break.
Before the intermission, Scott Morrison said he didn’t know who highlighted parts of an executive briefing he signed in February 2015 that said the welfare crackdown needed legislative reform.
Documents shown during today’s hearing showed yellow highlighter over large chunks of text on a copy of a document that bore Morrison’s signature – including over paragraphs talking about:
Several parts were underlined and annotated with pen.
Asked whether he marked up briefs from time to time, Morrison said: “I don’t recall. It’s not impossible, that’s a fairly normal thing for one to do, but whether I used a pen or a highlighter, I can’t say, I had no normal practice.”
Morrison said it was “quite possible” the markings were done by the Department of Human Services, whose officials drew up the brief.
“I’m not suggesting that, I don’t know,” he said, adding: “I can’t tell you why they were done because I don’t know who did them.”
Referring to parts of the brief in which he circled “agree” next to multiple courses of action, including the development of a welfare integrity scheme, and the exploration of legislative changes by departmental officials, Morrison replied that “was in relation to pursuing, not endorsing, particular measures”.
It was my practice as immigration minister, as treasurer, and as prime minister, that if I wished to convey any additional measures to the department, I would actually write under where I signed, if I was to convey something to the department, that is what I would do, which I did not do on that occasion.
Scott Morrison has told the royal commission he can’t recall viewing the robo-debt policy proposal that went to a cabinet subcommittee.
However, he said in his written statement there were no legal issues raised within it.
The former prime minister was then taken to the wording of a draft minute regarding the welfare crackdown proposal in February 2015 in which it was agreed departmental staff would pursue policy and legislative changes.
Morrison said pursue “does not mean agree”.
“It means pursue, which means people keep working on it,” Morrison said.
“The cabinet process is built to ensure that ministers can have confidence that when submissions come before it that checks and balances have been applied.”
Returning to today’s royal commission hearing, and Scott Morrison has told the commission he assumed that Marise Payne, as the minister responsible for the Department of Human Services, would’ve been involved in drafting the executive minute and final proposal for the robo-debt scheme.
“That’s my assumption,” Morrison said, adding that – according to the documents assembled before the commission – “it seems to be borne out by that”.
Scott Morrison answering questions at today’s royal commission hearing.
He also said it was “not unreasonable” that he and Payne worked closely together on what was then known as the proposal to strengthen welfare integrity.
Morrison was also shown a diary note of a meeting he had with Department of Social Services official Fin Pratt in January 2015 in which “welfare cop” was written.
“That language, welfare cop, was probably something you said to Mr Pratt in the course of the meeting with him conveying what you have described earlier to [the Sky interviewer] as your position as minister,” counsel assisting the commission, Justin Greggery, KC, said.
To other news briefly, and the prime minister’s office has just announced that Anthony Albanese will travel to Papua New Guinea from January 12 to 13.
While in PNG, the PM will meet with his counterpart James Marape in Port Moresby for an annual leaders’ dialogue.
Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese alongside his Papua New Guinean counterpart James Marape in Brisbane earlier this year. Credit:Getty
The pair will then travel to PNG’s north coast to visit the resting place of Michael Somare, who died last year and was known as the “father of the nation”.
Here’s what Albanese told us in a statement:
I have spent time with my good friend Prime Minister Marape on several occasions this year, including here in Australia at the Prime Minister’s XIII Rugby League match.
I am looking forward to starting the new year with a visit to Papua New Guinea to reinforce the strong bond between our two countries.
Australia and Papua New Guinea are close not just geographically, but also because of our long history and shared vision for the future.
I thank Prime Minister Marape for the invitation and look forward to continuing our discussion in Port Moresby and Wewak.
Commissioner Catherine Holmes has gently chided the former prime minister over the length and content of his answers.
“Mr Morrison, can I get you to stick to answering the question a bit more?” Holmes asked.
Commissioner Catherine Holmes.Credit:Mark Cranitch
“I do understand that you come from a background where rhetoric is important, but it is necessary to listen to the question and just answer it without extra detail, unnecessary detail, if you can.”
Morrison obliged.
Justin Greggery, KC, then asked the former PM why, in a Sky News interview, he appeared to link the growing National Disability Insurance Scheme bill with social security reform.
Here was Morrison’s answer:
What you refer to is the responsibility that I had as minister for social services to ensure that that portfolio was exercised in accordance with its legislation, and that there was not payments that were made that were being inappropriately made, and the reason for that is to ensure that the taxpayers’ resources were available for those purposes that were very necessary.
Now, whether that’s the NDIS… and I make that reference deliberately, and still am of that view, as social services minister, it was my job to ensure that the system was run appropriately, efficiently, and there were not payments being made that were not supposed to being made. Because that means there would be lesser resources available for other important objectives of the government.
Now, I would say that I had the same objective when I was minister for immigration, when I was treasurer. But as minister for social services, ensuring the efficient operation of that portfolio, that is how I could ensure that I was doing my job to contribute to the broader objectives of the government by ensuring that taxpayers’ resources were not being expended inappropriately.
While giving evidence, Scott Morrison has repeatedly referred to the lessons he learned in his previous portfolio of immigration in focusing on improving the integrity of the welfare system.
In the social security system, in Australia, we should be very proud of it … it’s one of the most complex and highly targeted systems anywhere in the world, like our immigration system. I saw a lot of similarities between them but when you have such a complex system, but also presents a very significant administration challenges.
Asked whether he asked Department of Human Services secretary Kathryn Campbell to outline the department’s approach to protecting the integrity of welfare payments, Morrison replied:
We discussed generally the issue of how it was managed, the integrity of the welfare system, and I was interested in learning on how we could do better and I had no specific suggestions about that.
Now, with the commissioner’s indulgence, I have learned as a minister for immigration that if there is not confidence in the immigration system, then Australians lose confidence in the very important program of immigration.
Morrison repeated that he’d had a general conversation about how improvements could be made, and agreed a February 12, 2015, executive brief of a proposal that became the robo-debt scheme was a result of that.
He said he was particularly interested in focusing on fraud.
I mean, that’s one of the most important issues that Australians and particularly taxpayers had expressed great concern about – that the system they didn’t want to see rorted because they believed in the system, as I did and do.
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As it happened: Energy bill to pass with Greens support; Scott Morrison appears before robo-debt royal commission – The Age
